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今日下午3：30贾陆英老师《论语》问答录在老秘网QQ群“重温经典读书会”准时开讲。本期学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1章，网友们的参与热情高涨。老猫出差刚回，现整理如下： 2 b; U9 J/ d2 {% z: U$ J: w8 I! N' ]mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">今天下午，我们学习讨论《论语》为政篇第+ I D/ N8 W) l: umso-font-kerning:0pt">1, ^, _ W9 f" T
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0 ~: r9 i6 R( b! m0 R1 s) `" A4 @mso-font-kerning:0pt">子曰：/ c; U( K% T/ O( E: Y# Y. mmso-font-kerning:0pt">"9 \ H1 Q+ V8 L) ?& Nmso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
( }/ N) C J% g: L+ xmso-font-kerning:0pt">为政以德，譬如北辰，居其所而众星共之。* \9 B% w c6 I/ P
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">北辰：指北极星。所：处所、位置。共：同拱，环绕。比喻众多的人簇拥着一个被他们尊敬的人，或许多东西围绕着一个中心。4 S% f0 c4 D% L0 E* m" P9 H
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) J1 \; D% { I1 T6 C2 K& q( }mso-font-kerning:0pt">孔子说：6 V) o# E, Z" }: e- }/ m
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">靠高尚的品德来施政，这样的为政者好比是北极星，居于自己的位置上，众多的星星都环绕着它。: Z$ x; c6 P" Y, I' _. Xmso-font-kerning:0pt">”
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+ g- h# [+ ~' i+ u5 Q( L& Jmso-font-kerning:0pt">问：这句话表达了孔子的什么主张？/ \. l. _2 _! N' y2 m! V/ K8 E( }4 G
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">答：孔子以北辰居其中而众星环绕作比喻，深刻揭示了具有高尚品德对于为政者的重要性，具体、形象、生动地表达了孔子的德治思想。当时，在如何治理国家的问题上，主要有两种主张：其一是依靠政令刑法，强制百姓服从；其二是通过道德教化，引导百姓走上正道。孔子主张后者，强调为政者首先要以自己高尚的品德为榜样，尔后才能教化、影响、引导民众。0 S) Q1 i: S! N. ^/ x8 W+ i) \
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服5 y6 U @! \5 i9 H+ I7 mmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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& i; r) ]. P% m3 a7 yTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">仁政具体指的是什么？道德层面的东西我觉得都太虚了，没有一个标准。同志们认为呢, `. e2 Q4 v6 ]0 U7 |- K
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服& k# i; @* k0 M* w
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7 ~: y/ i! N6 i9 P0 ~* rmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的，这就是孔子说的2 f/ j& Y/ M9 H. R% n9 s- J3 I$ a, K o
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。* X5 T( e3 V K! ?
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! t4 Y% W7 D8 z: y3 g# [0 Vmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？孔子的人性不分善恶，他信奉有教无类。我认为是孔子信奉的是德治礼治，而不是德治法治，儒法结合是后人的创新! z4 k. Y) V5 e f& r; L# x i1 T
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒家法家绝对是治国两大法宝，是不是有说内法外王。希望依靠道德来治理国家。道德高尚至极只能是圣人，而不是君王。君王要有仁爱之心，但不能妄想通过道德来治理国家吧。干部要清明、清廉、清白+ m, z3 r5 O9 X
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2 G1 U6 o! [/ G* {* R! s A0 a6 F* kTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想。儒法相结合不是从以往执政者所言的外儒内法。应该是在去除封建统治者为维护统治所宣扬的糟粕基础上，留下儒家所宣扬的大仁、大爱的思想，在结合现代化的法制、民主的精神，才是真正的儒法结合。一味从古，不如不学" Y7 P) ^9 z1 d B2 f% k2 cmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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/ A- U- x- J8 s- x7 I G1 M3 Cmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">基本赞同。孔子所说( P Z' U# w* u% @( ?mso-font-kerning:0pt">"! w0 t( ~( J8 F8 ifont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;" C' X1 B1 J' i
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本恶。人性本善，礼仪道德，天下大和。人性本恶，礼仪道德，与虎谋皮啊; J9 ^0 x& G; ^' C& n6 r1 e, [$ cmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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r7 i( x* v ]/ D& N# cTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">政令刑法重在社会上的约束，讲究实效，不遵守即被处罚，道德教化重在精神上、舆论上的约束，不遵守会被谴责和孤立，但不是收到立竿见影的实质处罚 T# P- F. R/ O4 K2 {mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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( O2 x8 r) |+ |Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我认为国治才能民安，所以教化没人人外儒是必要的，每个人也都有义务做到外儒！民安后如何能够实现久安呢？这就需要内法的作用啦！) m6 v* e) ]: q: G6 Pmso-font-kerning:0pt"> 5 j' v" }+ Z0 }8 I
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# J" d+ ?# i* ]& n0 z/ E; Q* ^) S0 K- ^5 R, k* DTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">Leslie" l9 k# B9 d& w+ C1 R% Q3 y( S5 j2 g10.5pt;font-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;
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( P- C% E9 b/ |4 wTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我觉得现在很多人被大众观念里的道德观绑架了，就出现了所谓的装和假, m/ y, ] K* p9 z
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9 ]$ |) x$ y$ D6 o0 ]7 t8 o" v3 {5 T; DTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒学是以伦理道德思想为特质的观念体系，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的显著特征之一。儒学是以礼乐文明为中心的文化系统，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的又一显著特征。现在确有一些人认为，道德修养方面的问题是+ @# a/ U8 |$ I1 N# xmso-font-kerning:0pt">“9 W) f$ Q6 W2 f+ l, T# b- \/ v
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. a2 S7 V( B% a( a+ }: _7 jmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，没有必要小题大做。这种认识是十分错误和有害的。8 e3 t$ X: L) Y# v& o* N8 ^mso-font-kerning:0pt">“. M' K& ?7 v8 |/ _- w* o& pfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;- e& F) e, \6 Y
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">千里之堤，溃于蚁穴. Z0 p+ ]/ g$ L3 p
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